Interview with Hendrik Möbus (ABSURD, Darker Than Black Records)

The recent release of the official edition of the album "Schwarze Bande" for the CIS territory gave me the idea to do an interview with Hendrik Möbus (aka Jarl Flagg Nidhögg). The interview was planned to be quite short, since the richest biography of Hendrik and ABSURD is uncovered in various publications, including "Lords of Chaos" and "Wolves among Sheep", so there was no point in referring to old memories again. But I did not take into account two points. Firstly, the biography of ABSURD after Hendrik's forced flight to the USA was covered in much less detail and still has many dark spots (I hope we managed to fix this), and secondly, Hendrik, like me, is a very meticulous prone to describing events in as much detail as possible and explaining his thoughts, which is especially important now, when certain fraudsters are trying to claim their rights on ABSURD name. Therefore, instead of a brief conversation, it turned out... well, you see it yourselves: probably the largest interview in the history of Bagnik Zine. I apologize for possible typos; my website's language switching plugin is a bit messy, and sometimes it is impossible to avoid errors.

Howdy, Hendrik! Usually, I make thorough interviews with my collocutors, , creating a big picture of their path since the very beginning and up until present day. With you, though, it won’t work, since your biography is so eventful that one can a write a whole book based on it. So, I’ll try to focus on the most actual things, although there will be some historical excursions.

Since there is a need to explain the situation around ABSURD for the readers who maybe didn’t follow it, we must go back in time first and foremost. Let’s make one of the most important things clear: what was the original line-up of ABSURD, i.e. founding members of the band?

 J.F.N.: In court, one would say: "There were three people in the same room, but only two were committing the crime!" But seriously, the idea of forming a band together existed as early as 1991, and it's impossible in hindsight to say who first came up with this idea. At that time, Wolf, DMD, and I were part of the same circle of friends; Wolf and DMD were already playing guitar, with DMD also writing his own songs. Considering the events in Norway, where black metal erupted like a primal force, it was only natural for us to join this movement and also form a black metal band. So nominally, it was DMD, Wolf, and I who founded Absurd on January 2, 1992, but only DMD and I began rehearsing and recording together. Wolf took care of sharing these recordings within the tape-trading circles. He was sort of our "manager" at the time and thus part of the band, even though he wasn't actively involved as a musician for years. Therefore, while he is rightly seen as a nominal founding member, he wasn't actively part of Absurd's lineup until 2001.

During the time in prison, you played a concert that was later released as IN KETTEN “Live at JVA Ichtershausen 1995”. I must ask how was that even possible? I can imagine having an opportunity to practice with the instruments in Western European prison, but playing a gig and recording it must have been  very tricky in terms of organization? Moreover, you recorded some tracks for the debut album of Absurd, still being in Ketten!

J.F.N.: Something like this would probably no longer be possible today, but in 1994, the GDR had only ceased to exist a few years prior, and the prison system also in Thuringia had been reformed, focusing on the "rehabilitation" of inmates. This also meant allowing them to participate in recreational activities, such as playing instruments together in a band. A non-profit association provided the instruments and music teachers, and the prison administration provided the rehearsal space. We shamelessly took advantage of this opportunity, indeed. As "In Ketten," we played socially critical songs and covers of other bands, but secretly, we rehearsed Absurd songs and were even able to record them, thanks in part to the assistance we received from this non-profit association. The concerts (there were probably three or more in total) in the prison were initiated by the prison director, who even filmed one performance on VHS. Only the audio track of this video has survived, and it has already been released on CD and LP under the name "In Ketten."

1996-1999 was a period of ABSURD rising as probably the most influential NS Metal-band in the world. We all know it was your fault, haha, but were you the only member of the band who truly shared NS ideas at the time?

J.F.N.: Such tendencies were already evident in Absurd's lyrics back in 1995—"Der Sieg ist unser," for example. I would say that I advanced more radically and decisively on this path than DMD, but he still shared my views. Recently, I held some of his letters to me from 1997 in my hands again. From them, it's clear that he was working on the lyrics for Asgardsrei and Kyffhäuserreich at that time—two titles I had suggested to him—and we were in regular communication about it. He often had questions on certain topics—mythology, history, ideology—and I was able to provide him with many insights and suggestions that ultimately influenced his lyrics. But they were his lyrics, he wrote them, and he alone is responsible for their content. To pretend, 25 years later, that DMD didn’t also want Asgardsrei to be both a document and a monument of NSBM is very disingenuous and definitely a distortion of history.

How did you end up at No Colours Records, considering that Darker than Black already existed at the time?

J.F.N.: Quite simply: While Darker Than Black Records existed since 1994, none of us had the financial means to release audio records. Back then, CD production, for example, was extremely complex and expensive. Creating layouts was also far from easy because computer technology was not yet as advanced or readily available to consumers. That's why Wolf spoke with Steffen from No Colours, who was very interested in releasing Facta Loquuntur. Before that, Capricornus had already released the tape of Thuringian Pagan Madness, originally planned as a 7" EP that was supposed to be released through Samoth's Nocturnal Art Productions, but he went to prison and couldn't follow through. Capricornus also lacked the funds to do more than a cassette with professionally printed j-card, so we were genuinely grateful for Steffen's offer through No Colours. And so it was done! He released Facta Loquuntur on CD and LP, and we were more than satisfied with the result.

Leaving Europe around 1999, you kinda passed the band to Wolf. How did that happen? How Sven Zimper (aka Unhold) became a member of ABSURD?

J.F.N.: Wolf already addressed this in detail in his interview on blackmetalterror.com, but I’m happy to tell you again. As mentioned, he was closely connected to Absurd from the very beginning, although he hadn’t played in the band until then. When I had to leave Germany at the end of 1999 (otherwise, I would have had to go back to prison, which eventually happened anyway), I asked DMD to continue the band. He declined. For him, the band was finished, and he had no ambition to have anything to do with Absurd anymore. Wolf disagreed because, just like me, it didn’t make sense to him to stop with Absurd, especially after Asgardsrei had just been released and further releases (Totenlieder, Kyffhäuserreich) were already planned and announced. But since Wolf wasn’t actively involved with Absurd, he couldn’t just continue the band on his own. He needed legitimacy from someone who, in the fans‘ eyes, was inseparably linked to Absurd. After he explained his idea to me, I fully agreed and expressed my support in interviews and my correspondence. However, in 2001, Wolf faced the problem that, although he had songs that DMD had written for Absurd and even had a studio budget provided by a record label (Hate Records), he didn’t have the musicians to record these songs. That’s when Unhold came into play. We already knew him from before, through his own band Luror and his involvement in Cryogenic, and Wolf knew that Unhold was a talented and capable musician. So, he invited him to the studio, and together they recorded Werwolfthron.

Can you give us a layout on authorship of music / lyrics of ABSURD during of 2002-2014 period? Because I know it’s different from the “official” data, and you participated on these records, too, even if there is no information about it. I am particularly interested in “Werwolfthron”, since this album was in making since 1995, and it must have had a lot of authors. Also, who / what is Saufwut (the person (?), that supposedly wrote 3 tracks for this album)?

J.F.N.: I share the same view as Wolf: Absurd is more than the sum of its band members. Over 30 years, there have been many of them—some were active as songwriters and shaped Absurd’s sound and style, others wrote lyrics and developed concepts, and some simply helped out with instruments. But each of them has contributed to making Absurd the band it’s known as today, and no one can claim to be solely responsible for that. That’s why I would never consider erasing anyone from Absurd’s history or denying their contribution to the band.

In the 1990s, with few exceptions, it was always DMD who wrote the lyrics and songs for Absurd. Wolf occasionally contributed something of his own, and I wrote the lyrics for 'Sonnenritter' on Asgardsrei (set to music by JK and RP / Von Thronstahl), but DMD was undisputed in the songwriting. This also led to love songs in Absurd’s repertoire, as DMD always knew how to compose a musical ode to his current romantic interest. Over time, however, I influenced DMD’s songwriting through my own ideas, suggestions, and concepts (Asgardsrei, Kyffhäuserreich). He was actually happy and grateful for this, as it meant he wasn’t solely responsible for all the content in Absurd.

By refusing to continue Absurd in my absence, despite my request, and by declining Wolf’s invitation to record his part for the planned split Kyffhäuserreich, DMD abruptly ended the chapter of his creative authorship. What remained from his songwriting and was later set to music by Wolf and Unhold were those songs that were originally meant to be recorded for Facta Loquuntur. However, they alone were not enough to make a full album, which is why Werwolfthron, like Facta Loquuntur before it, relied on new songs and also 'fillers.' In the case of Werwolfthron , these included one of my lyrics, two instrumental pieces, and three songs from a local medieval folk band (Saufwut). Wolf booked them for the studio, but they didn’t even know it was for recordings meant for Absurd.

Afterwards, the split Wolfskrieger with Pantheon was released, for which old Absurd songs were re-recorded, or new songs were written for my lyrics. On Totenlieder , once again, DMD’s songs were used after Unhold befriended him and paid him for them. Whether these songs still date back to before 1999, I cannot say, although it’s unlikely, considering that I knew pretty much every song DMD has been writing for Absurd back in the days. Even though we had planned Totenlieder back then and announced it in 1998, the original concept for this album was completely different from what Wolf and Unhold eventually recorded and released. One song originally planned and written for Totenlieder is 'Nuklearer Sturm,' which was later released on Eternity's debut album in 2004. Wolf wrote a song on Totenlieder , both the music and lyrics, titled 'Der Scharlachrote Tod'.

On Raubritter , there was again a song by Wolf ('Über die Weiten Midgards'), as well as a re-recording of 'Green Heart.' Unhold was not involved in this release that took place in 2004. I find it very remarkable that Unhold himself mentions that DMD supposedly transferred all rights to his songs to him in 2004 (!) and asked him to handle the future releases of those songs: ‘DMD (...), after verbally transferring the rights to his compositions and lyrics to me around 2004—with the request that I handle the corresponding releases in the future...'. That was exactly the time when neither DMD nor Unhold were part of Absurd. So, two former band members had apparently already conspired against Wolf and me back then to prevent further use of DMD's songs for Absurd?

I'd like to take this opportunity to share my thoughts on the topic of 'copyright' in relation to Absurd. There seems to be a general consensus in black metal (and not only there) that all songs explicitly written for a specific band, recorded by that band, and released under that band's name and logo automatically become part of that band's canon. Regardless of the lineup and whether anyone involved in writing those songs is still part of the band, as long as the band exists and is legitimate, it should have the right to reissue, release, and perform all of those songs.

Otherwise, a meaningful and reasonable continuation of the band, when members leave, would hardly be possible. That's why, as a rule, there are no disputes: What belongs to the band stays with the band. This is how practically all bands in black metal operate, and it’s widely accepted by the fans.

This view, however, only has a limited connection to the formal legal definition of copyright. In court, it is clear that copyright is inalienable (even for 70 years beyond death), and at most, exploitation rights can be transferred. But copyright is not limited to lyrics and music; it also extends to playing instruments or recording vocals. Participants can assert their copyright over these contributions as well.

Following Unhold's logic, in which he claims that DMD transferred 'all rights to the songs he was involved in' to him without restriction, he tries to rely on formal legal copyright but fails to understand its full implications. DMD would not have been able to transfer all the songs, on which I played drums and other band members played bass or guitar, to Unhold without our consent. If Unhold only has the rights to DMD’s lyrics and music, then he would have to delete the old recordings and re-record these songs: with new drums, new bass, and in some cases, even new guitar. But that’s not all—songs written by Unhold himself, in their current form, are not entirely his to continue using. He would need to come up with new lyrics, possibly entirely new music, and above all, re-record the vocals, which were originally done by Wolf. Because there is no contract in which Wolf and I have agreed to the use of our contributions to the songs by Unhold.

But without a court ruling, claims based on copyright are just empty words. You might feel morally justified—and maybe you are—but if you don’t get that right legally recognized, you can’t enforce it, and you’re left with nothing but complaints on the internet. If that's what someone needs... well, go ahead.

Unhold was involved again for Blutgericht. One of the lyrics is mine (actually two, but only one was eventually set to music), the others are from a certain Freki or a traditional folk song ('Totentanzlied aus Flandern'). This time, as far as I know, the music is 100% composed by Unhold. He even recorded more songs with accompanying lyrics, but they were not completed and therefore didn’t make it onto the album. One of these songs, with new lyrics, later appeared as the title track on Grabgesang . Another, also with new lyrics written by him, was completed by Wolf in 2014 ('Größer als der Tod') and released.

Grimmige Volksmusik was supposed to be released earlier, but it was only fully completed with Unhold’s return to Absurd. Originally, it was intended to be an album with German folk songs set to black metal style, but Unhold didn’t like the idea, so they limited it to five songs—yet these became iconic for many fans and even defined Absurd’s style for some of them. Wolf was so taken with this concept that he continued it with his new band, Der Tod und die Landsknechte.

Then I was released from prison and brought my concepts and lyrics for Der fünfzehnjährige Krieg and Weltenfeind. Both releases were recorded in 2007 and released a year later. Many fans consider the songs on Weltenfeind to be the pinnacle of Absurd's creative output. It seems downright bizarre that Unhold and Gelal seriously discussed re-recording these songs with new lyrics. Allegedly, this was intended to circumvent the ban on Weltenfeind in Germany, but in truth, it was yet another attempt at historical revisionism, aimed at erasing me and my lyrics from Absurd. The irony that Unhold and Gelal named their record label after a song lyric of mine surely hasn’t gone unnoticed by them!

When and why ABSURD was banned in Germany? Is it banned, like, altogether, or it’s just separate songs / albums?

J.F.N.: Absurd is not banned. However, there has been an instance where a music band (Landser) was prosecuted and banned in Germany as a 'criminal organization,' something likely unique in the world. What is banned, though, are several songs by Absurd, and consequently, the releases that contain them (although they could be removed, which would make the release available for sale again). These bans are based on various reasons, ranging from 'glorification of violence' to 'incitement of the people.' These are songs—art—but in Germany, there is neither freedom of speech nor artistic freedom. Since these songs cannot be performed publicly, Absurd performances in Germany (and elsewhere) are always very risky and face the threat of being banned.

It’s astonishing that Unhold has published his contract with DMD, which we’ve already discussed, on his website. In this contract, DMD asserts his authorship of songs that are banned in Germany, and Unhold expresses his willingness to reissue and release these songs. This constitutes a criminal offense in Germany and it doesn’t matter that Weltenfeind is located in the USA – because DMD und Unhold are not! In court, this would be seen as a clear admission of guilt, and any lawyer worth their fee would not only have advised against signing such a contract but also warned against publishing it afterward. I don’t understand why Unhold did something like that, but maybe he knows he has nothing to fear? Time will tell.

Did DMD ever quit ABSURD for real? In all the turmoil around the band during the last years , he seems to be always somewhere behind the scenes, as if he wants to claim his rights but can’t – for a reason that is pretty obvious, I guess. Judging by his behavior, he’s really mad at you, but why?

 J.F.N.: What might seem contradictory at first glance is easy to explain when you look back at the past and consider DMD's personality. It was in 1995 when he first became afraid and didn’t want to continue with Absurd. At the time, we were in the middle of recording Facta Loquuntur, although under the guise of the band In Ketten, and DMD's then-fiancée urged him to stop the recordings because she feared that our cover would be blown and he would have problems with the prison administration afterward. DMD listened to her and broke off the Facta Loquuntur, not by expressing his concerns to us (C.H. Surt and me), no, he seriously considered whether he could simply break his hand to have a fitting excuse. I was so angry about this that I mentioned in interviews at the time that DMD no longer belonged to Absurd because he had betrayed the band. DMD stalled the completion of Facta Loquuntur, and later, these recordings could no longer be continued because the three of us were separated and sent to different prisons for other reasons.

After our release from prison, and even before the recording of Asgardsrei, there was another moment of disappointment in and anger towards DMD. Wolf mentioned it in his interview for blackmetalterror.com: In September 1998, we wanted to perform with Absurd for the first time at a concert we organized (with bands like Nagelfar, Riger, Barad Dür, among others). DMD agreed, and we even rehearsed briefly for the performance (Wolf was supposed to play bass because C.H. Surt was no longer available). But suddenly, DMD was nowhere to be found. Wolf and I even traveled to Dresden, to the home of his then-fiancée, to talk to DMD. However, he wasn’t there and didn’t show up for the concert either. Why? Once again, it was fear that held him back.

Maybe I can even understand that his fear wasn’t entirely unfounded. After all, I was supposed to return to prison at the end of 1999, but instead, I decided to flee abroad. Before that, however, I wrote a letter to DMD and asked him to continue Absurd in my absence, as we still had release plans for the band (Kyffhäuserreich, Totenlieder). DMD rejected my request; for him, Absurd was over, and he no longer wanted anything to do with the band. Yet, half a year later, he and his then-wife met Wolf, and they talked about Kyffhäuserreich (planned as a split release between Absurd and Heldentum), and on that occasion, DMD promised him he would still record his songs. But not long after that, he canceled on Wolf again. Wolf also talks about this in his interview on blackmetalterror.com.

What do the Americans say? Three strikes, and you're out! For Wolf and me, it was clear that nothing more could be expected from DMD, and we should take him at his word: he would have nothing more to do with Absurd. Wolf still had the songs that were originally intended to be recorded for Facta Loquuntur, and he became determined to record and release these songs under Absurd. I agreed to this, but DMD was neither asked nor did he give his consent.

Wolf ignored DMD for years and never paid him any money for the use of his songs. I shared this stance, and after my release from prison again in 2007, I also conveyed to DMD that he should expect nothing different from me.

However, we hadn't accounted for Unhold. He didn't personally know DMD when Wolf invited him to record Werwolfthron, but not long after, a friendship developed between DMD and Unhold. They both played in Wolfsmond, and DMD gave Unhold even more lyrics and songs for use with Absurd. Unhold paid DMD for all of this, consciously undermining Wolf's refusal to do so in this matter.

This private and business relationship between Unhold and DMD continues to this day, as seen with Grabgesang and Werwolflicht. For DMD, it’s only logical that he sides with Unhold, from whom he gets paid. On the contrary, he first hated Wolf and now hates and curses me, because we see him as a traitor to Absurd and don’t want to involve him in the band's proceedings.

The same applies to DMD as to Unhold: he wants to profit from Absurd without all the inconveniences that inevitably come with the band, considering its history and reputation. Yet it is precisely this history that has established the band’s reputation, and it is only through that history that Absurd has become a legendary band that enjoys international recognition and is seen as a benchmark for uncompromising conviction and consistency.

In the perception of fans, friends and foes of Absurd, I have contributed greatly to this reputation, and for that, I have made sacrifices in the form of my personal freedom and years of my life. In 2003, Wolf and I stood trial together, and the charges at the time also involved Absurd and Asgardsrei. Asgardsrei. I could have named DMD as the author of those songs, but I didn’t. Instead, I went to prison for another six years also because of it.

DMD has publicly distanced himself from NS(BM) and mocked Asgardsrei, claiming it is even worse than our early demo recordings. I would have every reason to be angry at DMD and wish him all the worst. Instead, I say he is so irrelevant to me that I won't even mention embarrassing details from his private life, even though they play a role in the events I've recounted here. He can do whatever he wants, but regarding Absurd, he has no say or control. That was the case in 2001, and from my perspective, it hasn’t changed since then.

It seems that you had good relationships with Unhold until some moment. As was said above, you participated on the records made by him and Wolf. When and why it all broke into feud? Why he wants ABSURD ABSURD to belong to him so badly, even if everyone knows that you’re the founding member of the band who obviously has the last word on that matter?

J.F.N.: I've known Unhold since 1998, but I was never friends with him. Of course, there were times when we talked to each other, but now we only talk about each other. In 2001, Wolf did talk to me about reviving Absurd with a new lineup, but the choice of musicians was, of course, entirely his decision. And as we know, he chose Unhold. However, as Wolf mentioned in his interview on blackmetalterror.com, there was a first rift between them in 2004, and Unhold was not involved in Absurd's recordings or concerts at that time. The last recordings took place in 2007, followed by a few concerts until 2012, when that also came to an end. After that, nothing more happened on Unhold's side, at least not for Absurd, but he wasn't idle either. During this time, he gradually sought a connection to the mainstream metal scene, through personal acquaintances, but even more so through the bands he released on WTC. It all started with Ascension; this band gained significant popularity, even in the mainstream metal scene, although many people still had a problem with their collaboration with WTC. However, that was about to change soon.

Wolf-Rüdiger Mühlmann is the deputy editor-in-chief of Deaf Forever, an influential magazine in the metal and hard rock scene in Germany. Thirty years ago, Mühlmann was just a small-time journalist at an even smaller local newspaper in Thuringia, where he wrote about 'the crimes of black metal' and called for a ban on the music, its bands, and its fans. Then he was hired by the music press and suddenly became known as an 'expert' on black metal. From the beginning, he made it clear that he identifies as an anti-fascist and wants to eradicate all NS elements from black metal. At the same time, he once said in reference to Watain, back when the band was young and considered controversial, that a band with so many fans ought not be left to the 'Nazis' in black metal.

So Unhold on one side and Mühlmann on the other came together, and it turned out to be a stroke of luck for the latter that Unhold was never a 'Nazi.' Of course, thanks to Absurd, he had connections to the so-called 'right-wing scene.' Practically all of Absurd's concerts were organized by Hammerskins, B&H, WCOTC, etc. But Unhold himself never shared any ideology with these people. Sure, he made jokes about Jews or made racist remarks, but there was never any political ideology behind it.

And that’s why it wasn’t difficult for Unhold to convince Mühlmann. In fact, Mühlmann publicly vouched for Unhold and seriously claimed that Unhold is the exact opposite of a 'Nazi who says and does Nazi things': namely, a true democrat and an upstanding humanitarian!

Unhold's involvement with Absurd was still questionable, but why, exactly? After all, through years of inaction, Unhold ensured that Absurd existed in name only. He neither recorded a new album nor reissued the old ones. He allowed the band to wither and waste away, hoping it would die a quiet death and fade into obscurity. That’s what Unhold would have preferred most: to be the sole decider of Absurd’s fate, without ever having to justify himself for it.

In return, WTC's releases were reviewed in Deaf Forever, and the bands were interviewed, which opened up new markets for Unhold. He was meticulous in ensuring that WTC carried no 'controversial' releases in its catalog. Instead, he sold such releases through other labels and distributors to still make money from them.

In 2017, in consultation with Wolf, I reformed Absurd and brought the band back on stage. Nothing worse could have happened to Unhold, as this caused him to lose control over the band and its releases. Not long after, Wolf was already active with his new band, Der Tod und die Landsknechte. Before that, Wolf had bequeathed the rights to his Absurd back catalog to me (this also included releases that he had personally financed and produced), and Unhold felt left out in the cold.

Of course, money played a role in all of this, but I am firmly convinced that for Unhold, it has always been about more than that: it’s about controlling the narrative of Absurd. I have never prevented him from reissuing his own versions of those Absurd releases he was involved in. Why he only does so hesitantly, or not at all, remains his secret. But it gave him headaches that I could re-release these albums myself and also determine how they are presented and perceived.

Naturally, it would have been the obvious step for Unhold, if he no longer wanted to be associated with Absurd's controversial past, to simply announce his departure publicly or to distance himself from that past just as publicly. But that’s not how he operates, because he’s a control freak. Saying goodbye to Absurd would have meant that someone else could take his place and continue the band, and Unhold would still be associated with Absurd due to his past involvement—whether he liked it or not, whether it suited him or not. He much preferred not to voluntarily give up his position in Absurd, while holding the band hostage to his lethargy—that was far more appealing to Unhold.

Only after I became active with Absurd again did Unhold respond by recording some leftover songs. I am sure he would not have done that otherwise and would have continued relying on Absurd suffocating under the weight of his lethargy.

I do believe that Unhold deliberately didn’t do or record anything for Absurd for years, but it’s also clear that over time, his creativity has significantly diminished. Even Der fünfzehnjährige Krieg Der fünfzehnjährige Krieg only featured one newly composed song. After Weltenfeind he didn’t write or record a single new song for years—not just for Absurd. Reportedly, a third Luror album has already been recorded but remains unreleased. Likewise, during the time of Blutgericht, at his creative peak, Unhold recorded an album in the style of early Katatonia, including his distinctive clean vocals. This project also remains unreleased because he either doesn’t want to or cannot finish it. And what about the last GBK album, Kohanic Charmers? At their performance in Finland in 2016, Unhold and Gelal told me they were flying to Germany to record that album. That happened, but Unhold didn’t finish it for years, and it wasn’t released until 2022—six years later!

When Unhold recorded songs again in 2019, they weren’t really new or recently written by him. And it was only five songs in total, even though, after all that time, a full new album was expected. That’s why I believe that Unhold, both for tactical and objective reasons, was neither willing nor able to continue with Absurd after 2012.

His conflict with me isn’t about who the founding member of Absurd is or who has the right to make money from Absurd's songs—no, it’s mainly about control over the narrative. It's about the question of what Absurd is supposed to express and represent. And in this regard, Unhold and I have two completely different views.

Unhold accused me of wanting to 'Nazify everything to the extreme.' This bothers him, not only because he himself isn't a 'Nazi,' but also because he finds it very inconvenient when he's associated with NSBM, especially when it causes him problems. Absurd is regarded—whether rightly or not, others must decide—as a pioneer of NSBM. This was the case even before Unhold was invited by Wolf to join the band. It must have always bothered him, initially in secret, and nowadays he makes no effort to hide it publicly.

From his perspective, all the problems he's had with marketing and distributing his WTC releases only arose because he played in the so-called 'NSBM' band Absurd. He can't undo that, but he can certainly try to claim that Absurd—at least during his time in the band—was never an NSBM band. If he succeeds in doing that, those problems will disappear on their own—or so he believes. But he sees me as standing in his way.

How does he deal with it? By trying to erase me from the history and biography of Absurd. Just take a look at the arguments put forward by his mouthpieces: they always focus on claiming that, first, I was never a founding member, and second, that my contribution to the band was negligible from the start. According to Unhold and them, I deliberately sabotaged the band by pushing it into a political corner where it supposedly never belonged. Therefore, I must be retroactively removed from Absurd, so their thinking goes. Then there would be no more reason to label Absurd as NSBM, and Unhold was therefore never involved in an NSBM band. Makes sense, right?

The pinnacle of this historical revisionism was the release of a heavily censored version of Asgardsrei in December 2022. I was erased from all the band photos (in true Stalinist fashion!), and the CD includes a bizarre text, supposedly written by DMD, explaining that the clearly National Socialist but supposedly nothing but very Übergermanic lyrics on Asgardsrei were only misunderstood because, in 1999, I supposedly decorated the CD with images and symbols from the Third Reich without DMD’s approval.

Unhold's campaign to whitewash Absurd doesn’t stop there. Even on Grabgesang , the old Absurd logo with the inverted cross and pentagram was deliberately used, and you’ll find it again on Werwolflicht. This album is completely harmless and doesn’t offend anyone; its AI generated design looks like something from a children's book, and the lyrics are pure fantasy about ghosts, forests and mythical creatures. You will never see this album banned in Germany or anywhere else. It has no potential for controversy—no one will be bothered or outraged by it. It is inoffensive by design. But still, Unhold refuses to sell it in his own WTC shop. Go figure!

That in Germany this album is widely distributed by RAC-labels is not a contradiction of Unhold’s whitewashing efforts for Absurd, by the way. They are among the few vendors who spend money on bulk purchases, and they compulsively order any new release with the Absurd logo on it, because they take it for granted that Absurd is one of the few Black Metal bands that can resonate with RAC listeners and skinheads. Unhold takes advantage of the reputation of Absurd being NSBM for as long as it helps him to sell this CD, but make no mistake: At the same time, he deliberately tampers with the DNA of Absurd for ultimately getting rid of this reputation. He truly wants to have his cake and eat it too!

However, Unhold can never enter his safe space for as long as I am in the way, but I am not budging. My vision of Absurd is fundamentally different from his idea, he wants to turn Absurd into something generic and inoffensive that hurts no one - but not on my watch, period!

In what other band has it ever happened, or even been tolerated by fans, that someone who joined 10 years after the band’s founding, and was only active for a few years, can claim ownership of the band, even though a founding member—who is still or once again actively involved—disagrees? Even the fact that in 2023, Wolf told Unhold to just release Werwolflicht with his own vocals because he ‚had earned this right‘ doesn’t change the facts. Wolf wasn’t speaking as a member of Absurd, since by that time, he hadn’t been involved with Absurd for 5 years and was instead active with his new band, Der Tod und die Landsknechte. So, he wasn’t speaking on behalf of Absurd, but rather expressing his opinion as a former bandmate of Unhold.

Unhold can derive no more legitimacy from this than from the words of DMD, who hasn’t been involved with Absurd since 1999 and has even publicly disparaged and distanced himself from the band.

Gelal from GRAND BELIAL’S KEY was invited by Unholdin 2019, and he’s one of the most vocal people in terms of talking shit about you, although in Absurd he is basically a hireling brought by another hireling. Does he even know you personally? Another clinical case is T.T. from ABIGOR, who has nothing to do with ABSURD, but it seems that sending verbal excrements in your direction is more important to him than his own well-being. Why these people are so obsessed by Hendrik Möbus?

J.F.N.: Yes, I know Gelal personally. I’ve met him twice, and we had a brief conversation. The last time was in 2016. As for the relationship between Gelal and Unhold, it‘s an interesting question as to who is actually dependent on whom here. During the GBK performance in Finland, Unhold brought lyric sheets on stage to read from. These sheets even contained detailed instructions on where in the song he should sing and when to pause. Written in English, not in German, so these instructions for Unhold must have come from Gelal. Isn't that strange? Someone like that isn't really a frontman of a band if he needs to be given such instructions before and during a performance. That’s something one would expect of a hired gun, though.

The suggestion that Unhold should reaffirm his claim to Absurd through new recordings also came from Gelal. Both were in the studio in April 2019 to work on the latest GBK album, and during that time, they instead recorded songs that were later released under the name Absurd on three different records. Wolf was not in the studio at the time and only learned about these recordings afterward.

Unlike with Unhold, I have to assume that for Gelal, it's only the financial aspect of Absurd that matters to him personally. He has no stake in the band itself. It’s not as if he ever cared that much for Absurd one way or the other. It was always Richard ‚Grimnir‘ Mills who saw himself as a big fan and close friend of Absurd, and Wolf also doesn’t recall ever exchanging a word with Gelal. Gelal makes his money selling Mexican street food to the African American residents of Washington, D.C., while his Ukrainian wife runs a small hair salon. In the U.S., it's not uncommon to need a second or even third job to make a living, so the extra income from selling Absurd records and merchandise is surely very welcome.

Perhaps one wonders why I seem to know and disclose private details about Gelal. No detective work or so-called 'Antifa methods' are necessary for that, as these are publicly available and accessible pieces of information. Prior to the GBK performance in Finland at the end of August 2024, Gelal made multiple attempts to obtain the name and address of Widar's girlfriend. What else could that have been but an attempt at intimidation? In any case, Gelal does not respect red lines, which, even in such disputes, should always be drawn when it comes to family and loved ones. He should be aware that such transgressions can happen from both sides, and it's better not to start down that path in the first place. However, growing up in South America has exposed him to one soap opera too many, that’s why he has become Alex Telenovela now.

Perhaps Gelal was simply following the example of other mouthpieces and sock puppets of Unhold, who had long been trying to extend his conflict with me to my family. Wolf was meant to be used as a tool to escalate this conflict into a full-blown fraternal war between him and me.

Wolf refused to comply with such an idea, because blood is thicker than water. But someone like Asemit, the former singer of Totenburg, is now outraged that Wolf didn’t kill me. Excuse me? How utterly insane is such a statement? Asemit, like Unhold, isn’t an only child. They have brothers too. Why do they think that my own brother should be out to kill me over a conflict that doesn’t even concern him, but outsiders? It leaves one speechless—it's truly disgusting.

In the case of TT—now better known as Thomas Tantrumberger—we’re also dealing with an obsessive-compulsive disorder that manifests as an unhealthy obsession with me. However, with him like with Gelal, there is actually a rational motive as a starting point. After PK (RIP) completely withdrew from public relations for Abigor, and TT took over responsibility for interviews and the band's presence on social media, he focused on giving Abigor the status in the metal scene that, in his opinion, the band deserves. Namely, as a pioneer and role model on the same level as Mayhem, Darkthrone, Burzum, and so on. It hurt him that Abigor didn’t receive the recognition and appreciation he believed the band deserved. But instead of looking for the reasons also in his own biography—after all, he was banned from Abigor for years by PK (RIP) due to his severe drug problems, spending his time at techno parties in Vienna rather than in Abigor’s rehearsal room—he blamed it on the unjust suspicion that Abigor had ties to 'Nazis in black metal.'

That refers to me, as I had a very good and long-standing relationship with PK (RIP) in the 1990s and also wrote lyrics for him; one of them was used on Abigor’s second album Nachthymnen in 1995. Personally, TT had no issue with this connection for a long time—quite the opposite. He worked on several releases for D.T.B. Records in his home studio and even meticulously and painstakingly restored the Asgardsrei recordings so that they could be re-released in 2012.

His attitude only changed when he met Unhold, and the two became friends and business partners. Abigor signed a record deal with W.T.C. Productions, which further exacerbated the problems mentioned for Abigor: not only did the band supposedly have 'questionable' contacts in the past, but now they were also working with a 'questionable' record label!

This questionable reputation of WTC stems solely from the fact that Unhold played in Absurd. And Absurd is only considered an NSBM band—according to the logic of Unhold and also now TT—because I supposedly wrongfully placed the band in that category. If they can eradicate me as the 'root cause,' then this guilt by association disappears, and Absurd, Unhold, WTC, and Abigor would no longer be subjected to such accusations. That’s what Unhold and TT have in mind, and that’s why TT has since been vocal in stating that I should disappear not only from Absurd but from black metal as a whole.

He became increasingly deranged and started spreading absurd (sic!) nonsense about me, but it’s no use. I simply won’t disappear! It all feels like a desperate attempt at exorcism because you can’t change the past or rewrite history. As I said, what may have once been rationally motivated has long since turned into a soap opera with drama galore, and by now, no one else besides the people involved even wants to hear about it or seriously cares.

All of a sudden, in 2024, Unhold and Gelal released a new album titled “Werwolflicht”. There was a confusion before it was even announced and released, because it was leaked under the name of WOLFSMOND, , and you too keep saying this album was most likely never meant to be one to be released under the name ABSURD. Why would you do that, what are your arguments?

J.F.N.: After the release of Werwolflicht , there are some people, including those close to Unhold and Gelal, who believe that it's unmistakably clear that this is an Absurd album. Unhold himself claims that there can be no doubt for any listener that this album was written for Absurd. So, I need to elaborate a bit further to clearly explain my position once again.

There are three key points that lead me to doubt Unhold's version of events. First, he claims that all the lyrics on Werwolflicht were written by DMD between 1996 and 2004. This is definitely false. DMD either recorded all the lyrics and songs he had written for Absurd by 1999 (either with Absurd or later with Wolfsmond on their 2002 debut album) himself or gave them to third parties. Unhold was among those who used these lyrics and songs, up until and including the recordings for Totenlieder . The only exceptions are the songs on Werwolfthron, which Wolf received from C.H. Surt and recorded without DMD’s consent, and the songs for Kyffhäuserreich, which remain unreleased to this day. There was nothing else left to be recorded, especially not some 20 years later.

In 2017, Unhold and DMD even signed a contract that explicitly listed which songs and lyrics were written by DMD for Absurd and for which Unhold was to pay him. This list includes the songs for Kyffhäuserreich, but there is no mention of any lyrics or songs now found on Werwolflicht. It is almost certain that these songs did not exist in 2017, a fact further supported by the release of Grabgesang in 2021. That release contains not a single song from Werwolflicht, even though these songs supposedly existed at that time. If they had already existed, why wasn’t Werwolflicht recorded in 2019? Wouldn’t that have made more sense? Why release an EP and stretch it across three separate releases if you already had a complete album ready?

Moreover, Werwolflicht Werwolflicht was not announced in 2019/2021, even though Unhold published a list of upcoming releases on the Promo 11/2019 A.Y.P.S. - CD, which mentioned Grabgesang, Kyffhäuserreich and The Eternal War (a planned compilation of newly recorded songs from Absurd’s early days in the style of Der fünfzehnjährige Krieg). Yet, Werwolflicht wasn't mentioned there.

Finally, Wolf himself confirmed (in his interview on blackmetalterror.com) that he had not heard a single song from Werwolflicht Werwolflicht before the spring of 2023 and had no idea that Unhold was working on or had already recorded the album. Given that not a long before Unhold had asked Wolf for a list of Absurd songs to re-record for the aforementioned compilation The Eternal War, it seems very strange and rather unbelievable that he did not inform Wolf about Werwolflicht or involve him in its creation.

We know that in a 2022 Wolfsmond interview (on blackmetalterror.com), DMD mentioned that the new Wolfsmond album was finished and would be recorded in the studio soon. He even gave details about the songs: "Our songs are ready for studio. They are once more about death, fog, darkness and hunting as wolves." This Wolfsmond album has yet to be released. Instead, Werwolflichtwas released, and the songs on this album also revolve around "...death, fog, darkness and hunting as wolves."

It is also nothing new that DMD appears as a ghostwriter for another band. The latest album by Totenburg, Jenseits des Grabes, was also written by him—both the lyrics and the songs.

Now to the counterargument that one can hear which songs belong to which band, and that there is an audible difference between Absurd and Wolfsmond. First, I would like to point out that DMD is not even a founding member of Wolfsmond. Unhold also joined the band later. Wolfsmond was founded by Managarm, who wrote most of the songs and lyrics for the band until his departure after the release of the Album III. When you listen to Wolfsmond, you will generally be hearing Managarm’s songs. Naturally, they are different from Absurd—there’s no doubt about that.

However, DMD contributed several songs to the first album Des Düsterwaldes Reigen, songs that he had originally written for Absurd. What made them Wolfsmond songs? Because they were ultimately recorded for Wolfsmond and released on a Wolfsmond album.

Why shouldn't it work the other way around as well? Managarm has not been involved with Wolfsmond for many years, so all the new songs since Album III, I must have been written by DMD. But no one has heard any of these songs so far, which makes it misleading to compare the songs on Werwolflicht to the Wolfsmond songs that Managarm once wrote. Instead, they should be compared to the Wolfsmond songs written after Managarm's departure, but this is impossible for outsiders. No new Wolfsmond album has been released yet, and only DMD and Unhold know how Wolfsmond will sound without Managarm.

It is also not unusual for Unhold to put his own touch on DMD's songs. He has been doing this since 2001, starting with the recording of Werwolfthron. He could have done the same with songs that DMD originally wrote for Wolfsmond but that Unhold later recorded to release under Absurd.

In conclusion, it's worth mentioning Wolf's statement in his interview on blackmetalterror.com, where he said that Unhold had occasionally sent him samples of songs he was allegedly working on for Absurd. Two of these can be found here: https://hordeabsurd.com/media-streaming/. However, as Wolf clarified, none of these samples ended up on Werwolflicht, raising the question of what these samples actually were and what became of them. Some people say they sound a lot like Luror. Objectively, the same could be said about Werwolflicht: it's essentially Unhold solo, and Unhold solo was always Luror.

No, there is no proof for my suspicion that Werwolflicht Werwolflicht consists of songs that were originally not written for Absurd. However, there are legitimate doubts about the claim that Werwolflicht is truly an Absurd album. This is especially true because Wolf was not involved, and Unhold had told him that the album would not be released without his participation, as Wolf’s vocals were, up until that point, an integral part of Absurd according to Unhold himself.

 In 2018, Wolf created DER TOD UND DIE LANDSKNECHTE and abandoned ABSURD. Can you tell us why he made such decision??

J.F.N.: Wolf spoke about this in great detail in his interview on blackmetalterror.com. I was in contact with him throughout that time, so I can share my own experiences and impressions as well.

The last joint studio recording of Wolf and Unhold was in 2007, for Der fünfzehnjährige Krieg and Weltenfeind . After that, they played a few more concerts, but by 2012, that also came to an end.

Wolf didn’t want to wait for Unhold to eventually be ready for a new album, so he decided to take matters into his own hands. He wrote the lyrics (except for one, 'Unzerstörbar,' which I wrote and was later used by Der Tod und die Landsknechte) and came up with the concept for a new album titled Ad Astra Cruentus. Wolf even went as far as announcing the album, complete with a tracklist and cover artwork, to motivate Unhold to participate. But it was all in vain! Unhold didn’t budge and, behind Wolf's back, made it known that he had no interest whatsoever in recording Ad Astra Cruentus.

Wolf then took a song from the studio session of Blutgericht, recorded it with new lyrics, and released it on an EP in 2014 just to show that Absurd was still active. But once again, nothing happened on Unhold's side.

Wolf and I talked a lot about this situation, and I suggested that he simply start looking for new musicians for Absurd. But Wolf didn’t want to go through the hassle, and he wasn’t sure if new musicians could be as good or even better than Unhold. So, he kept waiting for Unhold, who kept making promises and delaying things but never delivered.

In 2017, the Asgardsrei Festival requested a headliner performance from Absurd, and based on my own experience (having attended the festival in 2016), I informed Wolf that it would likely be the best and most professional opportunity for Absurd to perform. Wolf was very interested, but Unhold was not.

Once again, I suggested that he should just take the stage with session musicians. Letting this opportunity slip away because Unhold was too lazy or too cowardly? That couldn't be allowed! Wolf responded by saying that I should just do the performance myself if it was so important to me. So, said and done! But I'll get to that later...

In any case, for Wolf, the moment had come where he could no longer see a future for himself as an active musician. Not with Absurd—that was clear to him, and he communicated this to the organizers of the Asgardsrei Festival.

Despite all the disappointments and setbacks, Wolf still wanted the lyrics he had written years earlier for Ad Astra Cruentusto be set to music. So, in 2018, he approached Bile from Leichenzug, who had already performed as a session drummer for Absurd concerts. Bile agreed to write the music for Wolf's lyrics, exactly as Wolf had envisioned it. And that's how Der Tod und die Landsknechte was founded, a year after Wolf had said goodbye to Absurd.

Wolf then set all the lyrics that were planned for Ad Astra Cruentusto music with his new band. Had Unhold not rejected Wolf's ideas and frustrated him with years of inaction, Absurd would have continued as early as 2014 or even sooner—in a way that listeners would later hear with Der Tod und die Landsknechte. Unhold wasted more than 10 years and many good ideas and lyrics before finally recording something again in 2019, which was then released under Absurd.

However, by then, neither Wolf nor Unhold were members of Absurd. Wolf wasn’t because he had left Absurd and founded a new band, and Unhold wasn’t because, back in 2001, it was Wolf—not me—who had invited him to Absurd, and I didn’t extend that invitation in 2017. In any case, by 2020, Wolf was the singer of another band when he contributed guest vocals on three songs from Grabgesang. On Werwolflicht , he declined to provide any guest contributions.

It's clear that Wolf felt truly liberated when he left behind the decade of inactivity with Absurd and was finally able to realize all his artistic concepts and visions with his new band. Der Tod und die Landsknechte is seen by many fans (who were and still are generally also Absurd fans) as a natural continuation of Grimmige Volksmusik, and it’s truly regrettable that this project didn’t start right after Der fünfzehnjährige Krieg. It strikes a chord with fans and fills a gap in the scene—there’s nothing else quite like it. I’m proud of Wolf for how he was able to express and realize himself, but it’s a shame that he plans to retire from music after the full-length album of Der Tod und die Landsknechte. I could easily imagine the band continuing, but of course, that’s Wolf's decision, and I respect it.

Tell us about how you resurrected ABSURD in 2017. Have you decided from the start that it will be a full-fledged comeback and not just a temporary resurrection for a single show?

J.F.N.: By 2017, it was clear to me that I wouldn’t go through the effort of reforming Absurd with a new lineup, only to draw the line again after one or two concerts. At first, I was focused on putting together a lineup for the upcoming concerts, with which I could rehearse and perform. Although I could already imagine new releases for Absurd at the time, concerts were the priority for the moment.

On the very day of our most recent concert, in February 2019 in France, the CD was released: Live in Suomi Finland Perkele 2008. Clearly intended as an affront against Absurd and me. I'd like to point out that this live recording from 2008 was never meant to be released, as both Unhold and Wolf were not satisfied with it. In any case, the CD includes some very stupid and ridiculous comments, like 'The original—not the fake!' and similar nonsense.

I thought to myself, 'Okay, you little punks! I'll take on this challenge!' So instead of focusing on more concerts, we decided to release new material first (also to have new songs for future shows). However, the phony pandemic delayed this plan, but in 2021, we began recording the new album Schwarze Bande.

What is the line-up of ABSURD today and why it changed around 2018?

J.F.N.: During the time from 2017 to 2019 when we were playing concerts, I replaced several musicians along the way to optimize our performance and stage presence. When it was time to record new material, I needed a skilled and fitting songwriter for Absurd—just like Wolf did in 2001. Deimos, who had played guitar at Absurd concerts since 2004 and again with me in 2018 and 2019, had many good ideas, but he followed Unhold's bad example by only recording fragments and not complete songs. That’s not how I wanted to work with Absurd, especially since the decade of inactivity during the Wolf and Unhold era served as a strong warning for me.

I then got into a conversation with Widar from Bilskirnir. We’ve known each other for a long time, almost 30 years now, and he has always been a big fan and loyal friend of Absurd. More importantly, with his own black metal projects, he’s earned a top spot in the scene and is confident enough that he doesn’t see DMD’s and Unhold’s songs as a benchmark, but rather as motivation to write better songs. And that’s exactly what he’s been doing since then. Widar has been a permanent part of the Absurd lineup since 2020 and is primarily responsible for our new songs, for which I write the lyrics.

We are supported by Leichenaar (bass) and KPS (drums) from Finland. This is the current and only legitimate lineup of Absurd.

There are voices claiming that we're using so-called hired guns, implying that I’m ordering songs for Absurd from a service agency and paying for them, but that’s, of course, nonsense. My situation is no different from what Wolf faced in 2001 when he decided to continue Absurd without DMD and me. He also had to find musicians and put together a new lineup. If Widar is a hired gun, then Unhold is as well—with the difference being that Widar is simply more capable and creative than Unhold. We already have the songs for a new album ready—brand new songs—while Unhold is still digging through old recordings or begging and paying DMD for more songs.

By the way, there is one difference between 2001 and today: I am not only a founding member of Absurd, but I was also actively involved in the band for almost a decade before I was no longer able to, and Wolf took over. What I’m doing today is legitimate, just as I considered and communicated back then that what Wolf did in 2001 was legitimate.

Although ABSURD is universally considered “NSBM”, it wasn’t NS since 1999, and even after your return in 2017, , you prefer to use different themes (although many people expected you to turn ABSURD into something akin to ARYAN KAMPF 88). You don’t believe in the political side of National Socialism anymore?

J.F.N.: My political stance and opinions remain unchanged. However, I have never understood NSBM to be explicitly political music, nor do I believe that an NSBM band is necessarily bound to themes from the Third Reich and World War II. NSBM is, as I said back in 1999, the last attempt to preserve black metal as a radical and uncompromising counterculture. Everything else, especially Satanism, is always co-opted by the mainstream and made socially acceptable. In the West and in our day and age, only a positive reference to National Socialism guarantees immunity from being co-opted by the music industry and music press.

But National Socialism is not a monolithic ideology. It absorbed many philosophical, cultural, and spiritual currents from the late 19th century, and since the collapse of the Third Reich in 1945, National Socialism has evolved and appears in forms and contexts that were previously unthinkable. That's why it's so ridiculous to use the argument that Adolf Hitler would have despised black metal. In the same way, Hermann the Cherusker would likely have rejected pagan metal. Such historical comparisons are meaningless and pointless, because we live in the present, not the past. The political, social, and cultural situation in 2024 is not really comparable to that of 1924 or 1934, for that matter.

With Absurd, I don’t want to give political lectures—no, I want to present an alternative reality with the band, focusing on themes, symbols, myths, and figures that are condemned and vilified today. But I do this in an ambivalent and even subtle way, far from a moral dualism of painting everything and everyone black or white. I’m more interested in antiheroes, villains, and criminals, where often a twist of fate or chance decides whether they could be seen or judged differently. Even the heroic figures are bloodstained and walk over corpses, but this is often overlooked in the radiant glow of their posthumous glory.

Is there a connection between ideological changes within ABSURD and the changes of the band’s logo?

J.F.N.: Yes, that's true. The evolution of the Absurd logo reflects the shift in the band's lyrics. Initially devoted to Satanism, we later identified with pan-Germanic paganism. That's why the inverted cross and pentagram in the logo were replaced with the sunwheel and Mjölnir. I then wanted to move away from religiously connoted symbols in the Absurd logo altogether, as religious themes play only a minor role in my lyrics. My focus is not on devils or gods, but on humanity in all its complex contradictions.

I'm completely with Friedrich Nietzsche on this: 'He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.‘ Homo homini lupus!

Aside from some songs here and there on early records, ABSURD always preferred German language, and now it’s totally German. Why you decided to abandon English language in the framework of ABSURD?

J.F.N.: This also has to do with the fact that I now write the lyrics and may have to sing them live on stage. I am German, with ancestors from many generations in Thuringia and Silesia, and my native language is German. In no other language can I express myself so well, so it was only logical that Absurd will now have only German lyrics. However, I still write English lyrics for other bands.

Now, to the more intricate of the actual questions: unreleased album of ABSURD “Kyffhäuserreich” recently announced both by you and Unhold. Explain the situation around it. Does Unhold’s fresh record “Werwolflicht” have anything to do with it?

J.F.N.: The lyrics and songs for Kyffhäuserreich Kyffhäuserreich were created at the same time as those for Asgardsrei, and I’ve had them since then. The idea came from me, as did the title Kyffhäuserreich, and DMD wrote the lyrics and songs based on my suggestions. However, we never recorded them, and even DMD himself, despite his promise to Wolf, didn’t do it. At this time I already lived in the USA where I was later apprehended and arrested, and I have rediscovered the lyrics among my personal files and letters only many years later.

Already in 1998, we announced Kyffhäuserreich as an upcoming Absurd release, in the form of a split with Heldentum. Much later, Unhold found out about it, and it seems he managed not only to buy these songs from DMD but also to pay him to record the songs as a demo.

Still, Unhold didn’t do anything with it either. Why? On one hand, the songs didn’t suit him—they were too pagan, too long-winded—and on the other hand, DMD made it a condition that Wolf was not allowed to sing these songs if Unhold actually wanted to record and release them.

It seems that DMD deviated from this point after 2019, which is why Kyffhäuserreich was also announced by Unhold as an upcoming release on the Promo 11/2019 A.Y.P.S. However, it still hasn’t been released even though it’s said to be recorded – without Wolf, just like DMD asked for it initially.

Next year, in 2025, will mark the 500th anniversary of the Thuringian Peasants' War, which also took place in the Kyffhäuser region. This seemed like the perfect occasion to finally record and release Kyffhäuserreich with Absurd, as a tribute to our homeland of Thuringia and, of course, the Kyffhäuser mountain, which has a long and colourful history beyond Emperor Barbarossa, dating back to the Stone Age.

After we announced Kyffhäuserreich, Unhold once again woke up from his lethargy and announced that he now also wants to finally release KyffhäuserreichKyffhäuserreich. But once again, it remains just an announcement... He allegedly owns the 'rights' to these songs, though I do wonder why I had them in my hands so much earlier than he did. In any case, in the end, the fans will decide which of the two interpretations of Kyffhäuserreich (if Unhold ever goes beyond just announcements...) they prefer.

Your album “Schwarze Bande” was recently released by the label Deep Dark Forest Deep Dark Forest for CIS countries. It contains a booklet, fully translated to Russian language. After that, you met with some backlash from our Ukrainian comrades. As a person who knows how this edition was realized, I can say that, with full understanding of the reasons of this initial reaction, all people behind the release are totally pro-Ukrainian, are not russians, and Russian language was used simply because it’s the most common in the region so far. I can also say that work on ABSURD releases in Deep Dark Forest Deep Dark Forest camp is continuing: the next one will be “Life Beyond the Grave1992-1994” demo compilation. What are your thoughts on this release, and will there be other international ABSURD releases somewhere in the nearest future? Also, I am kind of surprised that, with so many right-wing and sympathetic labels in Russia and neighboring countries, no one ever released ABSURD records for this region officially before (the only exception is the enhanced edition of “Asgardsrei”, released in Ukraine in 2017).

J.F.N.: Anyone who knows me and has followed my life in the Nationalist movement should have no doubt about where my sympathies lie in this conflict (which has been ongoing for much longer than just since 2022). Nevertheless, I reject collective guilt and collective punishment. No one should be held accountable for the actions of their homeland's regime without cause, and in the CIS countries, there are certainly dissidents who Absurd can inspire but who now have no way to obtain our releases from abroad.

This situation should be addressed by releasing Schwarze Bande in a Russian-language edition, and I still agree with this. I understand the feelings of our friends, comrades, and fans in Ukraine. They have every right to completely reject anything that sounds Russian, but the war will not be won by dwelling on the fact that Schwarze Bande Schwarze Bande now has a Russian translation. Pretending that the use of the Russian language is synonymous with supporting Putin and the war he initiated only plays into his hands! It should be clear that a band like Absurd, which itself suffers from state persecution, has a special interest in supporting and motivating dissidents in other countries. Already fifteen years ago, I had no illusions about the nature of the Putin regime and have consistently warned against glorifying his rule in the West. The Russian-language release of Schwarze Bande is in line with this tradition, and a release in Ukrainian is also planned. I will make sure that my benefits from these releases will go to the good cause of Ukrainian resistance, as a matter of course.

But you raised a good question—why weren't there such localized Absurd releases for the CIS states earlier? It’s likely that our records were easily accessible in that region at the time (not at all - F1sher16), and no one felt the need to go through the effort of making a localized version, I guess.

What are the plans of ABSURD for the nearest future?

J.F.N.: We are currently working on four new releases. First, the split Division z.V. / AO with War88, then, of course, Kyffhäuserreich, as well as the EP Prana Atma and our next full album Todeskampf. Beyond that, we plan to play live concerts again and are preparing for that as well.

You never participated in any band except ABSURD, as a full-time member, but one can hear your guest vocals on the records of such bands as s? ENDSIEG, MALEFICE, NECROSYNTHESYS, NOKTURNE, STRAWAZ (by the way, isn’t that the same guy who attacked the guy from WULKANAZ, with an axe, and later blamed you for “revealing secret correspondence”, which was nothing but a bunch of drunken threats?). Tell us about this cooperation. I noticed that, except NOKTURNE, all these guest vocals were recorded after you returned with ABSURD in 2017... Also, you contributed a lot of lyrics for such bands as THE TRUE WERWOLF, ABIGOR, AD HOMINEM, EVIL, CAPRICORNUS, GRAVELAND, DROWNING THE LIGHT, FUNERAL WINDS, TWO RUNES (whole album!). How often the bands ask you to help them with the lyrics?

J.F.N.: I'd like to clear up a misunderstanding. The guest vocals for Nokturne were not done by me. Although the band asked me, my friend and then-colleague Vidar Veratyr really wanted to do it, so I let him. You can clearly hear the difference between his voice and mine. That's why you were right to pay close attention, because my guest vocal contributions indeed only came after I took over the vocals for Absurd and gained some experience with it.

As for the lyrics, that's correct, I have occasionally written lyrics for an allied band in the past, and I will continue to do so when the opportunity arises. For example, I will be contributing lyrics and guest vocals for an upcoming Goatmoon album. These are acts of friendship, and besides, there are always ideas that don’t quite fit with Absurd but can be incorporated with other bands.

The young comrade from Strawaz had some problems in the past, but I am a supporter of the new generation in black metal, and I'm glad he has overcome them and is now working energetically on new songs.

There was (or still is?) a campaign led by Alex Telenovela, Thomas Tantrumberger, and other mouthpieces of Unhold, aimed at turning bands and labels that work with me against me. Stefan from Strawaz briefly fell for it, but then he realized his mistake and apologized. Forgiven and forgotten!

Now I’d like to talk about Darker Than Black Records. Tell us, why you decided to create a label in 1994, and what were its goals and principles? How these goals and principles changed over time? Was there any deeper meaning in its name – like, it's Black Metallabel , but not exclusively, so it’s "darker than black"?

 J.F.N.: In 1994, we wanted to release Thuringian Pagan Madness as an EP, and of course, we needed a label for that. The name Darker Than Black Records came from Leichenschrei (allegedly Opferblut, Lacerated Gods), and that’s pretty much the only good thing remembered from him. Darker Than Black is obviously a superlative, and I’ve always understood it to mean that this label would release bands that take our motto 'Black Metal is more than music' to heart.

Since we lacked the money, we couldn’t release Thuringian Pagan Madness ourselves. Samoth wanted to do it through his label, Nocturnal Art Productions, but then he also had to go to prison. D.T.B. Records became a sublabel of Malicious Records to release 7" EPs, but unfortunately, it only resulted in the EP by Silexater, as Malicious Records vanished due to tax debts. It wasn’t until 1997 that we were able to really get the label going, but at that time only with CD releases.

However, that didn’t last long, as the state security raided us twice and dismantled our mailorder business in 1999. I then went abroad, and several releases planned for DTB were released through the label I newly founded, Ancestral Research Records. Afterward, I was arrested again and spent several years in prison. During that time, Wolf founded Nebelklang (Nebelfee Klangwerke), but in 2006, just before my release, he sold the label. So, after my release in 2007, I continued with DTB. By now, there have been over 600 releases through Darker Than Black Records, across all relevant formats.

With DTB, I want to contribute to black metal by supporting new bands and projects, as well as reissuing the works of veteran scene members. At the same time, I aim to preserve and pass on the pure essence of black metal as a radical and uncompromising counterculture. That’s why there is no censorship at DTB. However, in consultation with the artists, we do take into account the legal situation in Germany, because it doesn’t help anyone if I end up in court, or worse, back in prison due to the releases of other bands.

I believe you released your first 7”EP and CD in 1997, but your first LP LP appeared only in 2009. Was it hard to work with vinyl format at first? Where I live, it’s an absolute disaster.

J.F.N.: That's clearly due to the fact that vinyl played only a minor role for many years and was considered a niche product in the scene. Especially in the 1990s, many releases were only available on CD, and Wolf also exclusively released CDs with Nebelklang. With the collapse of the vinyl market, there were hardly any pressing plants left in Europe, and this situation has only improved in recent years. However, I grew up in an era when CDs didn’t exist, and vinyl and cassette tapes were the only (and analog) formats for music. I still remember very well the first punk rock and metal records that Wolf and I bought on the black market of East Germany for a lot of money.

That’s why it was clear to me that there had to be vinyl releases through DTB, and when the opportunity arose, I made sure to have that done.

I often ask this question to the label owners with a huge portfolio: do you remember all your releases?

J.F.N.: Of course, I remember all the releases on Darker Than Black Records, though sometimes I might need a little reminder, haha!

What release of DTB is the most successful release in terms of sales and popularity? Less successful?

J.F.N.: Definitely Kaevum, Vothana, and Absurd are the most successful. From these bands, several thousand copies of every format have been sold for each release. However, many releases have sold only a hundred copies or even fewer, for a variety of reasons. Statistically speaking, with such a large number of releases, there will always be outliers both on the high and low ends.

Your favorite release?

J.F.N.: Let me be bold and biased—it's Schwarze Bande, of course. With this release, we succeeded in aligning the lyrics, graphics, and design to create a complete work of art that can only be fully appreciated when the listener actually holds the CD or LP in their hands.

The most expensive in terms of production?

J.F.N.: The still unreleased 5 LP box set of Absurd's Life Beyond the Grave 1992 – 1994. It's going to be really expensive, which is why so many labels initially agreed but then backed out. Now, we have to finance and make this release happen on our own.

Release of your dream – if you ever thought about it?

J.F.N.: Especially Facta Loquuntur in its originally planned version, with all the songs that DMD wrote for it and that we intended to record. Then maybe Burzum's Hvis lyset tar oss , with a shortened Tomhet and the addition of Et hvitt lys over skogen. Also, combining Emperor's 1992 and 1994 EPs into one full album.

Some labels proudly say that they don’t accept promos and choose their signings by themselves, although they constantly release new young bands, so I think it’s just a pose. Do you work with promos?

J.F.N.: Yes, I do still check out promos, both watching and listening. Sometimes just briefly, and then I realize it's not of interest to me, but usually, I listen to at least one song and look up the band on Metal Archives, if there's already an entry.

Let’s imagine I’m a young artist , who made a decent debut record. I want to release it on Darker Than Black, , what should I do? What kind of support your label can offer?

J.F.N.: In any case, you should reach out to me directly. Many promos are mass emails sent to a large number of labels, and that immediately makes me lose interest. Just as a label carefully selects certain bands, a band should also be able to approach specific labels directly. Then, together, we can see if the label and the band are a good fit. As a label, I act as the executive producer and provide financial and logistical support in preparing the release—from recording to design—and handle the production and distribution of the release.

Aside from possible help with the lyrics, what else do you do for your releases? Like designs, mixing / mastering, etc.

J.F.N.: Of course, the full package. Everything a label needs to and should do to make a musician's artistic vision available as a physical release.

In the age of wholesales, you still make trades; an attitude that I deeply respect. In your opinion, what is the importance of trades for the underground?

J.F.N.: In the underground scene, which still includes Darker Than Black Records, trades with other labels are common practice. It's the easiest way to spread releases within the scene and also helps to preserve the label's budget.

In my label work, I have to be quite flexible, otherwise we won’t survive, but there are still some fundamental “no-go" principles. For example, I will never sell leftist propaganda stuff, Christian metal or the Russian band Satarial (because it would be fucking disgrace). What are your no-go principles?

J.F.N.: Yes, exactly as you said: While I'm much more flexible and tolerant in the distribution side of things compared to selecting bands for DTB, I still wouldn’t sell everything just because I can. A band or release that directly contradicts my values and ideals won’t make it into my catalog.

Some bands had a very good kickstart from DTB before switching to “bigger labels” and talking shit about you. The prime example is a tranny loving clown from GALDR, , who is still deeply traumatized by three releases on your label. There is also SAOR, , who doesn’t want to have anything in common with the “nazi label”. Are there any other names who changed their colors? Do you have any regrets about working with them in the past?

J.F.N.: It’s to be expected that, given the large number of bands I’ve worked with as a label over the years, there will always be disappointments or even instances of 'betrayal.' Most of the time, it’s about a lack of honesty when a band decides to switch to another label but doesn’t want to inform me. If I find out through the internet or from third parties, I’m naturally far from pleased. Sometimes, issues arise even after a release has been made, because the band suddenly doesn’t want to acknowledge prior agreements.

I should mention that I almost never sign written contracts with bands. Everything is done with a verbal agreement and a handshake as the signature. If you can’t trust someone’s word, then even a written contract drafted by a lawyer and notarized won’t protect you from a breach of promise. Without a minimum level of mutual trust, a band and label shouldn’t even start working together. Additionally, most of the bands and musicians I deal with are from abroad. International legal disputes across borders and languages can be pursued if you’re running a state or a global corporation, but for people like us, that’s out of the question.

I could write quite a bit about various examples (you've already mentioned two) of a falling out between me and a band, but honestly, it would be wasting too many words on them again. For every band that turns out to be a disappointment, there are two dozen bands where the collaboration works perfectly, with nothing to complain about on either side. But no one really talks about that in the scene, because gossip and drama are fueled by (publicly aired) conflict.

Fundamentally, I don't regret any release on Darker Than Black Records, but I do regret investing time, money, and energy into something or someone who simply didn’t deserve it. Ingratitude is the reward of the world, even in black metal.

Any rip-offs you want to mention??

J.F.N.: No one comes to mind at the moment, but the vast majority of my business partners have been known to me for years. I hope to have enough life experience and understanding of people not to knowingly fall for a fraudster in this scene.

Considering the “dangerous” status of DTB and constant pressure from the German authorities, it must be hard to manage the label. What are your main responsibilities as the owner of DTB? Do you have any help from outside, like hired workers etc? Do you have any job outside of the label??

J.F.N.: I handle the label myself, but my wife helps with the mailorder. In that sense, we are a family business. Since it is an officially registered company, we, of course, have to comply with all government regulations. This starts with taxes and fees but also includes the laws on so-called ‚hate speech‘ and related propaganda crimes in Germany. These are very strict and can be applied extremely arbitrarily. I've already dealt with accusations multiple times, for example, claiming that a rune from the Futhark 'looks deceptively similar to an unconstitutional symbol.' The context is completely ignored, as it obviously makes a difference whether a rune is used by a pagan metal band in the context of ancient heathenism or by an NSBM band embedded in images from the Third Reich. But this difference, which is obvious to any objective observer, is ignored by law enforcement. This creates a situation in our scene where you can never be 100% sure if the CD or LP you’re holding in your hands is legally problematic or not. It’s exactly this situation that the state has deliberately created, as they hope to better control and dominate people when they are kept in a state of uncertainty and doubt.

Things are still different elsewhere. For example, in Finland, no label has to worry whether, the day after a release, an armed police SWAT team will break down the door to confiscate a CD or LP. Over there, you can release and sell anything, and the state doesn’t intervene. It must be nice to be able to work that way!

However, you also notice that people take their liberties for granted and don’t realize that, in other places, you can lose your livelihood and personal freedom for the very same things. Where there are no consequences to fear, for example, the engagement with something like National Socialism is often superficial and used merely as a tool of provocation. It's quite different when a commitment to this ideology comes with the risk of prosecution and jailtime. In that case, you think very carefully and only with a strong inner conviction would you take on such a risk. It is so much easier to talk the talk than to walk the walk!

That’s also part of it, as I’ve said elsewhere—black metal can only ever be more than just music if you’re willing to make sacrifices and face the consequences. Of course, I don’t mean that one should go out of their way to seek trouble! But there are enough examples—Unhold comes to mind—where someone tries to cultivate the image of a relentless black metal fanatic, but in reality, they’re always trying to avoid any risk and make sure they don’t get into trouble with authorities, the press, or Antifa.

I’m probably the only black metal musician from Germany who has already served prison sentences for offenses related to black metal and still has to face court. Antifa has outed me at my place of residence several times, burned my cars, and physically attacked me.

I don’t need to prove my uncompromising nature, and I’m fully aware that words and actions have consequences. That’s why I can only laugh when certain people in this black metal scene try to threaten and intimidate me. I’ve already been where they’re too afraid to go, done what they fear to do, and experienced what terrifies them so much they want to avoid it at all costs. So please, if anyone in this scene truly wants to impress me, they’ll need to try harder and stop boring me with their meaningless chatter on the internet.

How did you get acquainted with Belarusian metal scene? What is your opinion on it? Favorite bands? By the way, how is it going with the reissues of FOLKVANG?

J.F.N.: That was in 1994, with the first demo from Gods Tower. Much later, I also worked with bands from Belarus, like Massenhinrichtung. Black metal bands from Belarus are still pretty much stuck in the 'Eastern Bloc,' and aside from all the challenges that come with that, it surely provides an important creative impulse. Bands in East Germany that weren’t state-sponsored had it really tough as well and had to do a lot on their own. But that made them more authentic, creative, and original. I think that’s something you can still experience in countries like Belarus. I’m still working on the Folkvang releases, as there will also be LP versions of them.

What are the plans of Darker Than Black for the nearest future?

J.F.N.: Slowly but surely, new releases are coming out on LP and CD, and also on cassette again. You can look forward to new songs from Kaevum, Totale Vernichtung, Absurd, Aufnorden, and much more. At some point, I’ll also find the time to commission a new website for the label, but until then, you’ll have to look for our updates on social media and relevant internet forums.

That will be all. Thank you for your time and your answers. If you want to add anything to this interview, be my guest!

J.F.N.: Oh man, this was probably the most extensive interview I've answered in a long time! For many readers, it’s likely 'tl;dr,' but I took the opportunity to address many points and questions as thoroughly as possible, so that in the future I can simply refer to this interview and not have to repeat everything. So, thanks a lot for that!

Since I referenced Wolf's detailed interview multiple times in my answers (https://blackmetalterror.com/2024/08/20/der-tod-und-die-landsknechte-an-in-depth-interview-with-wolf-moebus) I recommend that everyone read both his and my interview together. This will provide a complete picture of the history of Absurd, as it has never been communicated before, and each reader can form their own opinion.

For all information about Absurd, visit www.hordeabsurd.com, my distribution can be found at www.black-metal.shop, and if, after my lengthy answers in this interview, you’re still interested in what’s on my mind, feel free to check out www.weltenfeind.info.